git gud

The obvious solution to this is stop playing ambush alone.

The best way to earn ISK and SP is shooting at enemy vehicles. I bagged 580k ISK once camping a tower with an Ishukone assault forge gun trololol.

lolwat?

My brother AFKs in bush while playing CoD on the other PS3 and he still makes enough WP to get the ISK/SP.

I seem to remember an interesting system in world of Warcraft for dealing with pvp rewards where some have s clear advantage over others. I think it was some kind of ranking system other than level, and you only got rewarded for killing higher ranked people, or something like that.

I wonder if we could have a similar system. So stompers wouldn't get sp for killing noobs, but if anyone kills a stomper they get a large reward. All based upon a ranking system similar to mu. Maybe the mu itself?

I dont think that was a troll that was just a statement that you need to improve your abilities.

I gotta ask... Are these full matches that people are failing to get over 150 wp?

Even vs protato squads you should be getting more than that. Think about it, your team is dying (probably a lot) just put some useful spawn points down, or sneak about and hack stuff.

---

I generally have three frontline suits with different roles and I usually can get a minimum 500wp a match

I have one with uplinks, and two others with a rep tool ( long and short range weapon)

You can do this with all militia gear (uplinks,nanohives,rep tool)

If you experiment with the medic or anti- armor frontline fit you can make yourself a very effective fit that will help make a ton of isk- it's like a poor mans apex suit

Even when your team is getting blown out, you should check the map and deploy uplinks and/or nanohives where you think they will best help your team and not get discovered by the enemy

Use the rep tool when your shields/armor are recovering. So attack, fallback, rep tool/recover, attack when back to decent health

The other benefit of using frontlines this way is that you can experiment with other weaponry and playstyles with very low risk

You think that's bad? Check this out : /

WP requirement should be removed for Ambush. ItGÇÖs fine for Skirmish and Domination which are favoured by the AFK community anyway.

The main purpose of the minimum WP limit is to target AFK:ers.

However, there were concerns raised about the minimum WP limit affecting different game modes differently, with Ambush as a clear example. I recommended to initially wait to implement the minimum limit, until we know how the system behaves for newbs and vets....but here we are I guess.

However with that said, unless you know the lifetime SP of the people you listed, and the secret "VET threshold" CCP implemented, there is no way you can state those people didn't get any SP, since the minimum WP requirement only applies to VETs.

Although you got 0 SP, you still got ISK and salvage, right? So you can't say you got nothing (At least I did when I didn't met the requirements)

And ask yourself, how much SP would you really have gotten from 125WP?
Compare that to your lifetime SP, and you will see that it really doesn't matter.

On the bright side, when you DO get a lot of WP as a VET, you see the SP roll in as never before.
(Overall I think it's evens out)

Come on man... running the APEX Nomad (Loyalty version) I can get more than 150 warpoints against Nyain San in Ambush. My actual proto fits, 450 or more.

Get Good.

if you cant get 150 just delete dust. your to worthless to play

So this is why you left the match right away after Kalante killed you

I think you just hate ambush?

We tried to fix ambush spawn mechanics, which were random, more like BF/COD, just spawn away in the distance, but then the blob was invincible.

The current mechanic tries to put you close to the hub of your teammates, but if they are being massacred, it's not good either.

Then we get into "if X deaths in area, then not spawn close to friends, just in outer rims", and that isn't easy either.

Any super smart ideas?

lol Allotek Flux grenades repeatedly give me 150 WP for landing one on a tank.

125WP?

I usually get that much when there's less than ten clones left and I get spawned in a game that's about to end.

You need to read up on strategy and reinvent your tactics.

@Aeon

If said "AFKer" doesn't care about KD then Ambush is the best game mode to AFK in. Get more salavage and isk in a shorter time span than skirm and dom.

That being said the situation you're describing seems to be the exception rather than rule. Alot of NPC corps are highlighted who are not affected by WP minimum.

Also in each image you provide there are plenty of players who have a more deaths than the ones you highlight who still manage to break the WP barrier.
In terms of most deaths per image

Image 1
Death bringer goes 2/9 and gets 250 WP

Image 2
Pedro Juan goes freaking 2/11 and manage to get 225 warpoints

Image 3

Two players die 8 times, Quatera 1/8 210 wp and Isiah654 0/8 25 WP.

These stats are sad indictcators of matchmacking, mostly documents noobs having a rough time, but in terms of sympathy for Vets with low WP hauls, i could care less. If a player going 2/11 (getting uber stomped) can break 150 WP then there no reason why somebody rocking proto in ambush can't do the same thing.

Not true, I AFK'd once or twice in ambush, you just pop down a bunch of droplinks and then wander around in the hills. Besides, you don't really need to be safe to AFK

If a vet cant Reach 150 WP, he totally deserves to be rewarded with 0 SP, ambush or not. Because it means that that vet wasnt even trying at all. Period.

I totally agree with you.

Would've done exactly the same thing. Insufficient incentive to play an unplayable match. Suggestion:

Oops! Something went wrong with Scotty the Matchmaking AI. Your odds of successfully navigating the upcoming stomp are approximately 3,720:1. Stompees will be paid end-of-match compensation of 3000 SP, 100 Barge Components. and 300k Isk (plus face value of all gear destroyed). Do you wish to deploy?

The WP minimum functions to influence vets to get off their ass and get more than 125 god damned WP.

If you honestly cant get more than that you should just stop playing. Not even kidding, go find something else to have fun with that wont make you feel like you are a bumbling idiot.

I cant even remember the last time I got <150WP unless I was afk eating a sandwich the whole game.

In-game justification: if you dont perform your job (you're a mercenary after all), you dont get paid.

Out-game justification: Learn to play and help your team. One uplink can get you like 300-400 WP if you dont place it in a moronic place, 3 kills will get you enough WP, rep tools, nanohives, hacking OMS installations, damaging vehicles, and so on and so forth.

How about you justify people getting any kind of reward when they perform so badly that they can't even hit 150 WP?

I might support a better system if you can think one up, but I have zero problem with a system like this being in place.

Because you're not the only one on the team. It's because everyone 'stops trying' that a stomp occurs, some check the player list at the start of battle and you see them do nothing. If you aren't going to try, why stay in the match, just leave it'll be better for the rest of the team. The people you don't care about putting at a disadvantage because you've taken up a player slot on the team without doing anything and yet you expect to get a reward, for doing nothing useful...
Even in primary school they tell you 'it's the taking part that counts.' Sure back there it means you get a gold star just for being, but the meaning you're meant to take from it, is that you should actually take part and try to help!

Why should I care if someone gets no points, for giving up and not trying, just because it's too difficult? If someone else was in that slot, sure we would likely still lose, but at least we'd be able to put up a fight. When you don't try, anything everyone else does becomes worthlessly outnumbered.

This is why;

The WP minimum is a good idea that was put in place to encourage player participation. If you are in the match and you are sitting on the side of the road in an LAV so you don't get kicked or sitting in the MCC with a rubber band on your controller so you can gain isk, you don't deserve SP or isk period. People do this...they are called AFK'ers and I am sure you know that.

They not only take places of people who might actually be playing the game, but they also stress out veterans like me because when I am on the ground putting boots to asses, I have no support. I'm decent at this game and sometimes I'm a beast at this game but I am never God at this game. I cannot be every role and defend every objective and every point myself. It cannot be done. I am not a one man army.

So I rely on all of you to assist me against the other 16 players on the other side. Just the same as you rely on me and if you're not going to try, I don't believe you should advance in this game because you are lazy and cowardly and no one deserves a reward for being cowardly and lazy.

If you're not even going to try, why play the game? This AFK pandemic also ruins the new player experience. You have just graduated the battle academy and put into your first match with veterans and you see 9 players up in the MCC not doing anything and you are being humiliated and juggernauted and stomped to the ninth degree.....so you decide you know what? Eff this game...this game sucks, I'm going to play ___________.

So the WP minimum is there for all of those reasons...and the reason why is because its what is best for Dust 514, its what is best for business and its a step in the right direction to encourage player participation and not allow a bunch of cowardly, lazy people to collect paychecks and skill points for spelunking about with their thumbs in their rectal cavities.

Savvy?

You keep asking for why? Here's my opinion

The 150 WP minimum is for Vets only. I'm unaware of what the level is the constituted a vet, but I've heard it range anywhere from 10 mil SP to 30 Mil SP.

For the sake of argument, let's split that number and call it 20 Mil SP

With 20 mil sp, you have been playing for a while. You understand the game mechanics, how weapons affect suits (and vice versa) you understand the roles of suits, the differences in races and have played more than enough matches to take that knowledge and apply it appropriately.

With the combination of that knowledge and experience, and as a vet, you have to TRY and not get 150 WP if you're actively playing. Kills, Assists, Links, reps, hives, needles, scans, hacking (no ambush obviously), etc all give you the ability to get anywhere from +5 SP (killing enemy equipment) to +100 SP (Hacking) even +150 if you manage to kill a tank.

With all of the options afforded to you to get SP, 150 is not a tough barrier to crack. Since this was implemented, I have in ONE MATCH not hit the 150 WP and that was because the match was nearly over before I joined the fight. I did still manage to get 125 WP.

I got isk, I got not skill points, so i pulled up my big boy pants and deployed into another match.

That is the answer to "Why?"

My alt is 100% invested in vehicles and has to run normal ambushes in starter gear/militia suits. I may have gotten <150 WP in a match but I dont remember it. Even in starter suits, it is not difficult for a vet player who knows what they are doing to get 150.

I dont know about you but I have no problem not getting SP when I do nothing for the team, even if it is an outlier in terms of performance.



The reward for playing a game is having fun, the mechanics of the game or in game rewards can take away or add to that, so its up to you to decide if playing the game is fun or not. If it isnt fun I would suggest not playing it.

I dont see how its hard to afk in ambush game mode, all you have to do is keep spawning in. I've seen more jumping afk starter AV fits in ambush than any other game mode.

Why stop at 150 WP? I dunno, you can make an argument for whatever you want, the specific number might seem to high or too low, I think 150 WP is fair enough and I rarely see anyone who isnt running around aimlessly or sitting around afk get less than that.

It penalizes SP over ISK because: ISK is the fuel that keeps a clone running, penalizing ISK would make it harder to run dropsuits in the future, thus creating a negative performance feedback resulting in worse and worse chances to make the WP minimum, SP penalty just leaves you where you were before the match. ISK is not relevant to many players, and most people dont afk in matches to win ISK. SP is the number that means something to the players behind the clone, so you have to penalize that number to make anything stick.

As for being spawn ****** by ambush, or the WP minimum being a shoddy mechanic in generally: I agree. This is CCP we're talking about here, and Im not sure why anyone ever queues up for ambush without expecting to be screwed over every once and a while. And again, if you can suggest something better I'd be all for it (but I dont think having no minimum at all is better).

I think you just hate ambush?

We tried to fix ambush spawn mechanics, which were random, more like BF/COD, just spawn away in the distance, but then the blob was invincible.

The current mechanic tries to put you close to the hub of your teammates, but if they are being massacred, it's not good either.

Then we get into "if X deaths in area, then not spawn close to friends, just in outer rims", and that isn't easy either.

Any super smart ideas?

Looks horrible, but I'd blame matchmaking here, not the WP minimum.

That said, I've been saying if you have a better system, speak up. Maybe we could add in a rule to the WP minimum that goes something like this: If more than half the team fails to meet the minimum, dont penalize anyone.

But again removing the minimum is not a solution just because theres one game out of 100 that is such a brutal stomp that the other team genuinely did not have the chance to make the minimum WP.

My assumption would be that those people probably aren't above the 'veteran' cutoff and it therefore didn't matter.

If they ARE above the 'veteran' cutoff, then yes, I concur they didn't do enough or got steamrolled by game mechanics.

EDIT: Also, stop saying they wasted their time. While not ideal, they did at least get some isk to compensate for their time.

on Ambush. If you are a vet, it is fairly easy take a cloak scout with a drop uplink, cloak, run to a safe space, drop the link and regroup. Take one for the team. I have done that quite a few times. Not only does it encourage people to do the same, but gives you a fighting chance. the 6 spawns should give the 150 you need.

Even if we need to fix ambush, it's still sound advice.

No, to help the team win...

Actually, I've been told it's character age. eccentric echidna told me that his 5 million SP character got 0 SP because he is considered a "vet" even though he has a small amount of SP.

Well, if you are a slayer and can't kill anyone...the advice was because it was hard to spawn. I think a decent cloak fit is maybe 100k SP.

Observation
WP Limit & Smart Spawn problems are only problems when the Ambush match is a stomp. They are more symptoms secondary to a larger problem with Scotty.

Optimal Solution
Cure Ambush Stomps and WP Limit & Smart Spawn problems will resolve on their own. This could be accomplished by holding Super Mu squads in queue until suitable opponent becomes available. This could also be accomplished by reducing squad size to 4. There are many who think reduced squad size will not help matchmaking; we could prove that it does (or doesn't) through a "trial run" in Ambush.

Interim Solution
Check the roster for Bad Scotties before deploying. If Bad Scottied, leave battle and try again.